S6E37 – TMN – Narnia Month: “The Magician’s Nephew (Part I)”

Today we begin Narnia Month by reading “The Magician’s Nephew”, joined by Andrew’s wife, Dr. Christin Ditchfield-Lazo.

S6E37: “The Magician’s Nephew (Part I)” (Download)

Show Notes

Introduction

Drop-In

• Dr. Philip Ryken

Quote-of-the-week

Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger,
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 4)

Chit-Chat

Special Guest

The regular co-hosts were joined by Andrew’s wife, Dr. Christin Ditchfield-Lazo

Matt’s Heresy

Matt begins the episode by flirting with heresy, suggesting that the Narnian books should be read in Chronological Order.

Toast

• Drinks
  • Christin was drinking Earl Grey tea
  • Andrew was drinking Independence Ale in his Pints With Jack glass.
  • Matt was drinking Moscow Mule with Fever Tree Ginger Beer
  • David was drinking Allagash White
• Patreon Toast
  • Newly-upgraded Patreon supporter, Matt Wheeler
    • “Salud, dinero y amor, y el tiempo para gozarles” (Spanish)
    • “IwlIj jachjaj” (Klingon)
    • “Prost!” (German)

Discussion

1. “Matt’s thoughts”

True to form, Matt found the second half of the book the more compelling.

Andrew quoted An Experiment in Criticism:

My own eyes are not enough for me, I will see through the eyes of others.

C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism

Matt referenced the movie Nefarious.

2. “Planet Narnia”

Andrew explained that, according to Planet Narnia, this book is based on Venus.

David interviewed Dr. Michael Ward about the Planet Narnia theory in S4E41 – AH – “After Hours” with Michael Ward.

3. “The Wrong Door (Chapter 1)”

Chapter summaries are based on summaries found on NarniaFans.com.

Polly and Digory meet each other at the bottom of the garden and become friends. It is the wettest and coldest summer in years so they decide to go exploring in the roof space of their row of houses…

While attempting to get into an empty neighbouring house, they accidentally enter the study of Andrew, Digory’s Uncle. Uncle Andrew invites Polly to take a yellow ring from a tray and the moment she touches it, she disappears from the room…

Chapter 1 summary

Christin is now known as “Lazo, the Greater”, “Lazo, the Great”, and “Lazo Major”.

Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin

Romans 5:12

And as Adam’s race has done the harm, Adam’s race shall help to heal it

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 11)

Matt had asked ChatGPT for the main themes of The Magician’s Nephew and the co-host thought it was plagiarizing Christin’s book, A Family Guide to Narnia: Biblical Truths in C.S. Lewis’s The Chronicles of Narnia.

Andrew quoted The Weight of Glory:

At present we are on the outside of the world, the wrong side of the door. We discern the freshness and purity of morning, but they do not make us fresh and pure. We cannot mingle with the splendours we see. But all the leaves of the New Testament are rustling with the rumour that it will not always be so. Some day, God willing, we shall get in.

C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

David asked about the significance of Lewis’ decision to place this Narnian Chronicle in the world of Holmes and the Bastables:

In those days Mr. Sherlock Holmes was still living in Baker Street and the Bastables were looking for treasure in the Lewisham Road.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 1)

Andrew referenced Lewis’ book, The Allegory of Love.

4. “Digory and His Uncle (Chapter 2)”

Digory’s uncle explains that the rings were made from Atlantean dust which he obtained from his fairy godmother. The yellow ring has sent Polly into another world. He then invites Digory to go after her and bring her back using the green rings.

Chapter 2 summary

Christin told the story of when Andrew realized that, once they were married, he would become “Uncle Andrew” to her nieces and nephews. Andrew responding by retelling the story of visiting Walter Hooper when he was offered Nice biscuits and refering That Hideous Strength.

Andrew drew attention to the the Lefay Fragment, a character who is still referenced in the final version of The Magician’s Nephew.

Matt read out this passage:

“Silence, Sir!” said Uncle Andrew, bringing his hand down on the table. “I will not be talked to like that by a little, dirty, schoolboy. You don’t understand. I am the great scholar, the magician, the adept, who is doing the experiment. Of course I need subjects to do it on

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 2)

David commented on how Uncle Andrew is willing to discard the Tao, described in The Abolition of Man, reading Uncle Andrew’s speech:

“Oh, I see. You mean that little boys ought to keep their promises. Very true: most right and proper, I’m sure, and I’m very glad you have been taught to do it. But of course you must understand that rules of that sort, however excellent they may be for little boys—and servants—and women—and even people in general, can’t possibly be expected to apply to profound students and great thinkers and sages. No, Digory. Men like me who possess hidden wisdom, are freed from common rules just as we are cut off from common pleasures. Ours, my boy, is a high and lonely destiny.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 2)

Christin referenced a book which turned out to be Overcoming the Dark Side of Leadership: How to Become an Effective Leader by Confronting Potential Failures.

Matt asked about the possible sexism found in this chapter and David pointed to S5E54 – “Sexism and Racism in Narnia”, After Hours with Dr. Devin Brown. Andrew referred to Women and C.S. Lewis: What his life and literature reveal for today’s culture, the book collaboration through which he met his wife.

David highlighted that, despite not following it himself, Uncle Andrew is more than willing to use the Tao to get other people to do what he wants:

“I hope, Digory, you are not given to showing the white feather. I should be very sorry to think that anyone of our family had not enough honour and chivalry to go to the aid of—er—a lady in distress.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 2)

5. “The Wood Between the Worlds (Chapter 3)”

After picking up a yellow ring, Digory finds himself in the “Wood Between the Worlds”, a quiet, peaceful forest filled with pools. Neither Digory nor Polly initially remember who they are. However, they eventually remember and the pair then decide to explore other worlds. After checking that they can return to London, they jump into another pool…

Chapter 3 summary

Andrew referenced Companion to Narnia, Revised Edition: A Complete Guide to the Magical World of C.S. Lewis’s The Chronicles of Narnia.

David connected The Wood Between The Worlds to the mythological Lethe and also connected the location to Yggdrasill in Norse mythology.

There was discussion about the location of The Wood Between The Worlds and, although Uncle Andrew is proved ignorance of much, he does say in the book the following:

… I don’t mean another planet, you know; they’re part of our world and you could get to them if you went far enough—but a really other world—another Nature—another universe—somewhere you would never reach even if you travelled through the space of this universe for ever and ever—a world that could be reached only by Magic—well!

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 2)

Diggory gives a Lewis-style analogy to explain The Wood Between the Worlds:

“…Think of our tunnel under the slates at home. It isn’t a room in any of the houses. In a way, it isn’t really part of any of the houses. But once you’re in the tunnel you can go along it and come out into any of the houses in the row. Mightn’t this wood be the same?—a place that isn’t in any of the worlds, but once you’ve found that place you can get into them all.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 3)

When speaking about how Digory is the young Professor Kirk, David made a reference to Anakin’s dislike of sand in the Star Wars prequels:

David ended this section by pointing out one Venusian description:

“It was a rich place: as rich as plum-cake.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 3)

6. “The Bell and the Hammer (Chapter 4)”

Polly and Digory find themselves in a world that seems old and dying. After exploring for a while, they come across an enchanted room of statues. Despite Polly trying to stop him, after reading an inscription, Digory strikes the bell in the middle of the room. Parts of the building fall down and, although the children think they are now quite safe, they are very wrong…

Chapter 4 summary

A man without self-control is like a city broken into and left without walls.

Proverbs 25:28

David asked Matt about Digory’s reaction to Jadis:

Years afterwards when he was an old man, Digory said he had never in all his life known a woman so beautiful.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 4)

Andrew referred to a fan-theory that Jadis is somehow related to the other witches in the Narniad (see more here).

Christin compared her to Satan who can still make make evil seductive:

And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

2 Corinthians 11:14

David suggested that this chapter really starts to highlight the similarities between Digory and his uncle:

“You looked exactly like your Uncle when you said that,” said Polly.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 3)

Matt quoted the following passage:

But he was in no danger of feeling conceited for he didn’t think about it at all now that he was face to face with Aslan.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 14)

As Matt was talking about focussing on Christ, Andrew quoted the end of Mere Christianity:

Look for yourself, and you will find in the long run only hatred, loneliness, despair, rage, ruin, and decay. But look for Christ and you will find Him, and with Him everything else thrown in.

C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity (Book IV, Chapter 11)

…and, of course, Till We Have Faces:

“Hush, sister, hush,” said Psyche. “…There, don’t be angry. You look just like our father when you say those things…”

C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part I, Chapter 4)

7. “The Deplorable Word (Chapter 5)”

One of the figures in the room comes to life. She is Queen Jadis of Charn. She tells Digory and Polly how she destroyed all life on her world. She asks them about how they came to be there and what their world is like. When she demands to be taken with them, the children try to escape…

Chapter 5 summary

Andrew contrasts Digory’s perception of women with Polly and Jadis:

“That’s all you know,” said Digory. “It’s because you’re a girl. Girls never want to know anything but gossip and rot about people getting engaged.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 4)

David said that both Jadis and Uncle Andrew conflate people and things, seeing them both as things to be used:

“This is what happens to things, and to people, who stand in my way.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 5)

David questioned what Temple in Charn might be like and whether or not Jadis would worship that deity?

And all the temples, towers, palaces, pyramids, and bridges cast long, disastrous-looking shadows in the light of that withered sun.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 5)

8. “The Beginning of Uncle Andrew’s Troubles (Chapter 6)”

The children make it back to the “Wood Between The Worlds”, but realise that they’ve brought Jadis with them. They try to leave her there, but she manages to make it back with them to Uncle Andrew’s attic.

Polly goes home but agrees to come back to help with the Witch as soon as she can. Andrew has a sneaky drink, changes his clothes, and asks to borrow some money from his sister when the Witch bursts into the room…

Chapter 6 summary

David asked why it is that the Wood seems to hurt her. Andrew suggested it was because it’s closer to Aslan’s country and is a place of self-forgetfulness.

David asked Matt whether or not he would have left Jadis in the wood. Unfortunately, he was too indecisive, meaning the Witch would have grabbed onto him and made it back to our world.

It was suggested by David that this chapter really contrasts Jadis and Andrew:

One good thing about seeing the two together was that you would never again be afraid of Uncle Andrew, any more than you’d be afraid of a worm after you had met a rattlesnake or afraid of a cow after you had met a mad bull.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 6)

There was some discussion about what sort of mark Jadis was looking for in Digory and only found a faint trace of in Andrew. Christin connected this with the “Mark of Cain” from the Book of Genesis and Christians in the New Testament marked with the seal of the spirit. David connected it to the end of Mere Christianity where Lewis talks about Saints recognizing each other.

“I see,” she said scornfully, “you are a Magician—of a sort…”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 6)

Andrew read Sonnet 22 by Joy Davidman which uses a similar phrase “beauty, of a sort”

Uncle Andrew starts becoming silly:

Children have one kind of silliness, as you know, and grown-ups have another kind. At this moment Uncle Andrew was beginning to be silly in a very grown-up way… But he was, in any case, as vain as a peacock; that was why he had become a Magician.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 6)

9. “What Happened at the Front Door (Chapter 7)”

The witch tries to turn Andrew’s sister to dust, but her magic does not work, so she throws her across the room where she fortunately lands on a mattress she was mending.

While Polly is grounded by her parents, Digory comes up with a plan to return the Witch. He also overhears a conversation between his aunt and a visitor which gives him hope.

The Witch reappears outside of the house, being followed by policemen and a crowd of onlookers.

Chapter 7 summary

David commented on the humour of this chapter:

“…get out of my house this moment, you shameless hussy, or I’ll send for the police.” She thought the Witch must be someone out of a circus and she did not approve of bare arms.

…”I thought as much. The woman is drunk. Drunk! She can’t even speak clearly.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 7)

The question was raised why Jadis’ magic didn’t work in our world.

Andrew connected Digory’s hope of magical fruit to the Garden of Hesperides, as well as pointing out the autobiographical nature of this work:

“What lovely grapes!” came Aunt Letty’s voice. “I’m sure if anything could do her good these would. But poor, dear little Mabel! I’m afraid it would need fruit from the land of youth to help her now. Nothing in this world will do much.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 7)

David thought the Cabbie was delightful, and Matt commented on how his goodness is extended even to Jadis:

“Now, Missie, let me get at ‘is ‘ead, and just you get off. You’re a Lidy, and you don’t want all these roughs going for you, do you? You want to go ‘ome and ‘ave a nice cup of tea and a lay down quiet like; then you’ll feel ever so much better.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 7)

Andrew compared it to other “final chances” offered in the Ransom trilogy:

Say a child’s prayer if you can’t say a man’s. Repent your sins. Take my hand.

C.S. Lewis, Perelandra (Chapter 13)

10. “The Fight at the Lamp-Post (Chapter 8)”

In the confusion, Polly and Digory manage to return the Witch to the Wood, but discover they have some unexpected visitors with them.

After getting into another pool, they find themselves… nowhere. They hear singing which causes the stars to come out and the dawn to break. They finally see the source of the song… a great Lion…

Chapter 8 summary

Christin connected the creation of Narnia to the descriptions of creation in the Bible:

On what were its bases sunk,
    or who laid its cornerstone,
when the morning stars sang together,
    and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

“Or who shut in the sea with doors,
    when it burst forth from the womb;

Job 38:6-8

The Lord your God is in your midst,
a warrior who gives victory;
he will rejoice over you with gladness,
he will renew you[a] in his love;
he will exult over you with loud singing

Zephaniah 3:17

Andrew connected it to Tolkien’s Silmarillion:

There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Iluvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made. And he spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before him, and he was glad. But for a long while they sang only each alone, or but few together, while the rest hearkened; for each comprehended only that part of the mind of Iluvatar from which he came, and in the understanding of their brethren they grew but slowly. Yet ever as they listened they came to deeper understanding, and increased in unison and harmony.

J.R.R. Tolkien, The Music of the Ainur

Matt was reminded of our discussions about death in Out of the Silent Planet from the following line:

“…you got to remember that worse things ‘appen at sea and a chap’s got to die sometime…. And if you ask me, I think the best thing we could do to pass the time would be to sing a ‘ymn.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 8)

Andrew suggested that “Frank” in this story might be inspired by St. Francis of Assis who spoke well of “brother death” in his Canticle of the Sun. Matt thought that Chesterton wrote a book about St. Francis and David said you can listen to a discussion about that work on Pints With Chesterton.

Wrap-Up

More Information

For more information about Lewis’ view about the connection between science and magic, check out S5E40 – Apologetics Month: “The Magician’s Twin” – After Hours with Dr. John G. West.

“Glory be!” said the Cabby. “I’d ha’ been a better man all my life if I’d known there were things like this.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 8)

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