S6E38 – TMN – Narnia Month: “The Magician’s Nephew (Part II)”

Together with Andrew’s wife, the co-hosts wrap up “The Magician’s Nephew”. It’s a long one today!

S6E38: “The Magician’s Nephew (Part II)” (Download)

Show Notes

Introduction

Drop-In

• Dr. Crystal Downing

Quote-of-the-week

Come in by the gold gates or not at all,
Take of my fruit for others or forbear.
For those who steal or those who climb my wall
Shall find their heart’s desire and find despair.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 10)

Chit-Chat

Christin has been writing lots of books and there is a possible Narnia project in her future. While discussing this, David quoted the following:

But many that are first will be last, and the last first.

Matthew 19:30

Andrew commented that Christin will also soon be starting her VBS (Vacation Bible School) for Grown-Up Girls.

David said that he would have to send Matt some episodes of Psalty the Singing Songbook, saying that he’s just been playing the episode where Psalty introduces his family.

Christin has also recently led a Prayer Labyrinth session at the local cathedral.

Matt met Brandon Vogt and believes that he said that Word on Fire are producing an annotated edition of a Lewis book. It has been confirmed that this book will be Mere Christianity, annotated by Dr. Michael Ward! It will probably be available in 2025.

Toast

• Drinks
  • Andrew was drinking Guinness
  • Matt was drinking Fever Tree ginger beer
  • Christin was drinking Early Grey tea
  • David was drinking Lagorado
• Andrew toasted our wives. David quoted Lewis and Chesterton:

All get what they want: they do not always like it.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 14)

“Marriage is a duel to the death, which no man of honor should decline.”

G.K. Chesterton, Manalive

Discussion

Story Recap

Polly and Digory are tricked by Digory’s Uncle Andrew to touch magical rings which whisk them off to other worlds.

While exploring a world, Digory rings a bell, waking a tyrant queen. They try to escape but she manages to come back with them to London where carnage ensues.

They use the rings to take her back out of our world but accidentally bring along Andrew, as well as a cabby and his horse.

They arrive in a world which initially seems empty, but then encounter a great Lion whose song summons the stars and the breaking of the dawn…

The story so far…

1. “The Founding of Narnia (Chapter 9)”

Uncle Andrew tries to steal away back to the “Word Between the Worlds”. The Witch catches him attempting to do this and the two argue.

As the Lion continues to sing, trees, grass and flowers grow. The witch throws the lamp-post bar at him, but it just bounces off the Lion, causing the Witch to run away. Uncle Andrew also tries to flee, but just falls into a creek.

Chapter summary

Christin pointed to two places in Scripture where breath is related to the giving of life:

…then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Genesis 2:7

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

John 20:22-23

The flashing in the sky echoed Pentecost. David connected this with being “hnau”. Andrew pointed out that the first command after waking is to “love”:

“Narnia, Narnia, Narnia, awake. Love. Think. Speak. Be walking trees. Be talking beasts. Be divine waters.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 9)

Uncle Andrew immediately sees how he might be able to make money out of Narnia and David connected it with the witch’s “practicality” which is mentioned in an earlier chapter:

…most witches are like that. They are not interested in things or people unless they can use them; they are terribly practical.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 6)

Andrew connected Uncle Andrew’s desire for money with Devine’s desire for gold (“sun’s blood”).

Matt said that the Cabby’s exhortation here reminded him of Mary and Martha and Andrew connected it to the words of St. James:

“Oh stow it, Guv’nor, do stow it,” said the Cabby. “Watchin’ and listenin’ ‘s the thing at present; not talking.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 9)

Matt considered Digory’s curiosity:

“No fear,” said Digory. “We want to stay and see what happens. I thought you wanted to know about other worlds. Don’t you like it now you’re here?”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 9)

Andrew saw significance in the expression “No fear” when Lucy points out that they can no longer be afraid:

“Isn’t it wonderful?” said Lucy. “Have you noticed one can’t feel afraid, even if one wants to? Try it.”

C.S. Lewis, The Last Battle (Chapter 16)

(Needless to say, he also quoted Till We Have Faces)

Matt spoke about the conflict between Uncle Andrew’s outlook and the presence of Aslan:

“…The first thing is to get that brute shot.”

“You’re just like the Witch,” said Polly. “All you think of is killing things.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 9)

Andrew quoted a section from Planet Narnia by Dr. Michael Ward.

2. “The First Joke and Other Matters (Chapter 10)”

Naiads, Dryads, Fauns, Satyrs and Dwarfs come out of the woods… animals previously selected by the Lion are now able to speak, including the Cabby’s horse, Strawberry.

The humans ask Strawberry about meeting the Lion and he agrees to take Digory to Him. However, Uncle Andrew gets chased in the other direction by some well-meaning animals.

Chapter summary

David quoted Aslan’s warning to the Talking Beasts:

The Dumb Beasts whom I have not chosen are yours also. Treat them gently and cherish them but do not go back to their ways lest you cease to be Talking Beasts. For out of them you were taken and into them you can return. Do not so.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 10)

While Andrew didn’t find “The First Joke” very funny, David thought this bit was rather amusing:

…a Rabbit said, “They’re a kind of large lettuce, that’s my belief.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 10)

… [Uncle Andrew] tried his hardest to make himself believe that it wasn’t singing and never had been singing… Now the trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. Uncle Andrew did. He soon did hear nothing but roaring in Aslan’s song. Soon he couldn’t have heard anything else even if he had wanted to.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 10)

 For what you see and hear depends a good deal on where you are standing: it also depends on what sort of person you are.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 10)

Andrew connected this with

…they are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart;

Ephesians 4:18

3. “Digory and His Uncle Are Both in Trouble (Chapter 11)”

While the animals are trying to figure out what Uncle Andrew is, Digory comes face-to-face with the Lion. Digory confesses to him that he brought the Witch into this world and that he mistreated Polly in Charn. Aslan tells him that he will help undo the damage caused and he declares that the Cabby and his wife will become the first King and Queen of Narnia.

Chapter summary

David wondered out-loud whether or not Lewis’ former headmaster, “Oldie”, is the inspiration for Uncle Andrew’s appearance.

Matt thought that this line was funny:

Then Uncle Andrew dropped down in a dead faint.

“There!” said a Warthog, “it’s only a tree. I always thought so.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 11)

David said that, were he Digory, he’d have bought Uncle Andrew a plaque for his room like this:

David compared Digory’s confession to the Book of Genesis where God asks Adam and Eve questions to which he already knows the answer.

Aslan has a plan:

“Evil will come of that evil, but it is still a long way off, and I will see to it that the worst falls upon myself… And as Adam’s race has done the harm, Adam’s race shall help to heal it. Draw near, you other two.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 11)

…and Christin connected this to the words of St. Paul:

For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive….

1 Corinthians 15:21-23

Matt connected this idea of cooperation with God’s plan with St. Augustine.

David compared Aslan’s call of the Cabby’s wife to Christ’s calling of Lazarus (and Carman’s song about it):

She felt sure that it was a call, and that anyone who heard that call would want to obey it and (what’s more) would be able to obey it, however many worlds and ages lay between.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 11)

Matt mentioned Rob Bell, author of Love Wins (and David mentioned one of his Pneuma videos he had particularly enjoyed) and a discussion on universalism ensued.

Of course God knew what would happen if they used their freedom the wrong way: apparently He thought it worth the risk. Perhaps we feel inclined to disagree with Him. But there is a difficulty about disagreeing with God. He is the source from which all your reasoning power comes: you could not be right and He wrong any more than a stream can rise higher than its own source. When you are arguing against Him you are arguing against the very power that makes you able to argue at all: it is like cutting off the branch you are sitting on.

C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity (Book II, Chapter 3)

Andrew referenced Lewis’ poem, Divine Justice:

God in His mercy made
The fixed pains of Hell.
That misery might be stayed,
God in His mercy made
Eternal bounds and bade
Its waves no further swell.
God in His mercy made
The fixed pains of Hell.

C.S. Lewis, Divine Justice

“And if enemies came against the land (for enemies will arise) and there was war, would you be the first in the charge and the last in the retreat?”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew

“Son,” said Aslan to the Cabby. “I have known you long. Do you know me?”

“Well, no, sir,” said the Cabby. “Leastways, not in an ordinary manner of speaking. Yet I feel somehow, if I may make so free, as ‘ow we’ve met before.”

“It is well,” said the Lion. “You know better than you think you know, and you shall live to know me better yet. How does this land please you?”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew

4. “Strawberry’s Adventure (Chapter 12)”

Digory agrees to go to the west and bring back an apple for Aslan which will protect Narnia. Strawberry undergoes a transformation by Aslan into a pegasus. Polly joins Digory on his quest and they take flight on the newly-renamed horse, Fledge.

They eventually land in order to get some rest and some food. Fledge eats grass and the children eat a left-over bag of toffees, planting one of them in the ground.

Later that night, they see a figure rush past them on foot…

Chapter summary

“Son of Adam,” said Aslan. “Are you ready to undo the wrong that you have done to my sweet country of Narnia on the very day of its birth?”

“Well, I don’t see what I can do,” said Digory. “You see, the Queen ran away and——”

“I asked, are you ready,” said the Lion.

“Yes,” said Digory. He had had for a second some wild idea of saying “I’ll try to help you if you’ll promise to help about my Mother,” but he realised in time that the Lion was not at all the sort of person one could try to make bargains with. But when he had said “Yes,” he thought of his Mother, and he thought of the great hopes he had had, and how they were all dying away…

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 12)

and a lump came in his throat and tears in his eyes, and he blurted out:

“But please, please—won’t you—can’t you give me something that will cure Mother?”  Up till then he had been looking at the Lion’s great front feet and the huge claws on them; now, in his despair, he looked up at its face. What he saw surprised him as much as anything in his whole life. For the tawny face was bent down near his own and (wonder of wonders) great shining tears stood in the Lion’s eyes. They were such big, bright tears compared with Digory’s own that for a moment he felt as if the Lion must really be sorrier about his Mother than he was himself.

“My son, my son,” said Aslan. “I know. Grief is great. Only you and I in this land know that yet. Let us be good to one another…”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 12)

“Please—Aslan,” said Lucy, “can anything be done to save Edmund?”

“All shall be done,” said Aslan. “But it may be harder than you think.”

C.S. Lewis, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe (Chapter 7)

When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled

John 11:33

So this land shall have a long, bright morning before any clouds come over the sun

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 12)

After Matt shared his spiritual journey, David referenced the “Law of Undulation” from The Screwtape Letters.

Andrew referenced the sonnet “I bless you”, read by Malcolm Guite.

“Is it good, Fledge?” said Aslan.

“It is very good, Aslan,” said Fledge.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 12)

“Well, I do think someone might have arranged about our meals,” said Digory.

“I’m sure Aslan would have, if you’d asked him,” said Fledge.

“Wouldn’t he know without being asked?” said Polly.

“I’ve no doubt he would,” said the Horse (still with his mouth full). “But I’ve a sort of idea he likes to be asked.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 12)

“Well, I do think someone might have arranged about our meals,” said Digory.

“I’m sure Aslan would have, if you’d asked him,” said Fledge.

“Wouldn’t he know without being asked?” said Polly.

“I’ve no doubt he would,” said the Horse (still with his mouth full). “But I’ve a sort of idea he likes to be asked.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 12)

Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.  Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven, …

Matthew 6:8-9

 And they repeated to one another all the signs by which they would know the place they were looking for—the blue lake and the hill with a garden on top of it.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 12)

Andrew and Christin will be speaking at Remember the Signs.

5. “An Unexpected Meeting (Chapter 13)”

The children awake to discover the toffee they planted has grown into a toffee fruit tree. They all have breakfast and a wash. The children climb back on Fledge and resume their journey.

They find the lake of which Aslan spoke and they alight on the hill near the garden. Digory goes into the garden alone and takes an apple. The Witch is there and tries to convince him to take the apple for himself, but they flee and return it to Aslan.

Chapter summary

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber; …”

John 10:1

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

James 4:7

Come in by the gold gates. Well who’d want to climb a wall if he could get in by a gate! 

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 12)

Andrew referred to Naaman the Syrian.

6. “The Planting of the Tree (Chapter 14)”

Digory throws the apple towards the riverbank.

Uncle Andrew is rescued from the animals’ “care” and Aslan sends him to sleep.

The new King and Queen of Narnia are then crowned.

They then all see that the apple which Digory threw has grown up into a tree which will protect the country of Narnia. Finally, Aslan grants Diagory his greatest desire…

Chapter summary

His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’

Matthew 25:21

…when I had thought it over, I saw that this view [of glory] was scriptural; nothing can eliminate from the parable the divine accolade, “Well done, thou good and faithful servant.” With that, a good deal of what I had been thinking all my life fell down like a house of cards.

C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

David saw the two trees from the Silmarillion:

One was a young tree that seemed to be made of gold; the second was a young tree that seemed to be made of silver; but the third was a miserable object in muddy clothes, sitting hunched up between them.

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 14)

But I cannot tell that to this old sinner, and I cannot comfort him either; he has made himself unable to hear my voice. If I spoke to him, he would hear only growlings and roarings. Oh Adam’s sons, how cleverly you defend yourselves against all that might do you good!

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 14)

And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands upon a few sick people and healed them. And he marveled because of their unbelief.

Mark 6:5-6

Things always work according to their nature. She has won her heart’s desire; she has unwearying strength and endless days like a goddess. But length of days with an evil heart is only length of misery and already she begins to know it. All get what they want: they do not always like it.”

…

“Understand, then, that it would have healed her; but not to your joy or hers. The day would have come when both you and she would have looked back and said it would have been better to die in that illness.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 14)

They, of course, do tend to regard death as the prime evil and survival as the greatest good. But that is because we have taught them to do so. 

C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #28)

Multiple references to Elijah’s heavenly feeding and sleep.

7. “The End of This Story and the Beginning of all the Others (Chapter 15)”

Digory and Polly find themselves in the “Wood Between the Worlds” with Aslan and a still-sleeping Uncle Andrew. Aslan gives them a warning and a command, and they then find themselves back in London at the same instant in which they left. Digory goes to give his mother the apple and she is healed. Polly collects the rings from Uncle Andrew’s attic room and they bury them with the apple core which grows into a fine tree which will one day be turned into a wardrobe…

Chapter summary

…before you are an old man and an old woman, great nations in your world will be ruled by tyrants who care no more for joy and justice and mercy than the Empress Jadis. Let your world beware. That is the warning. Now for the command. As soon as you can, take from this Uncle of yours his magic Rings and bury them so that no one can use them again.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 15)

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress.For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it.

2 Timothy 3:1-5

“That is the very thing that makes her story so likely to be true,” said the Professor. “If there really is a door in this house that leads to some other world (and I should warn you that this is a very strange house, and even I know very little about it)—if, I say, she had got into another world, I should not be at all surprised to find that that other world had a separate time of its own; so that however long you stayed there it would never take up any of our time.

…

“But do you really mean, Sir,” said Peter, “that there could be other worlds—all over the place, just round the corner—like that?”

“Nothing is more probable,” said the Professor, taking off his spectacles and beginning to polish them, while he muttered to himself, “I wonder what they do teach them at these schools.”

C.S. Lewis, The Lion, the Witch , and the Wardrobe (Chapter 5)

“A devilish temper she had,” he would say. “But she was a dem fine woman, sir, a dem fine woman.”

C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew (Chapter 15)

“They say Aslan is on the move—perhaps has already landed.”

And now a very curious thing happened. None of the children knew who Aslan was any more than you do…

C.S. Lewis, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe (Chapter 7)

Wrap-Up

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• Christin Ditchfield

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