S7E28 – Narnia –The Lamp-post Listener (“Night falls on Narnia”)

Daniel and Phil from the Lamp-post Listener join Matt to discuss their completion of “The Chronicles of Narnia”.

S7E28: “Narnia Month: Night falls on Narnia” (Download)

Show Notes

Introduction

Quote-of-the-week

In about ten minutes [Lucy] …found that it was a lamp-post. As she stood looking at it, wondering why there was a lamp-post in the middle of a wood and wondering what to do next, she heard a pitter patter of feet coming towards her. And soon after that a very strange person stepped out from among the trees into the light of the lamp-post.

C. S. Lewis, The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe

Chit-Chat

• Matt has never read Narnia before, so David wanted him to read one every season.

Biographical Information

Daniel Payne is a classical educator whose love of Narnia was reignited while reading The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe to a Lower School class at the beginning of his career. Daniel has written classical curriculum for multiple books in the Narniad; he has also taught on Lewis in various professional and parochial settings.

Phil Whisenhunt is a backend developer at a start-up company making clinical trial software. He is also an illustrator and has provided LPL with all eight season’s cover art.

Toast

• Matt was sipping an NA Guinness.
• Phill was drinking a liter of water.
• Daniel had a glass of WhistlePig FarmStock Rye.

Discussion

01. “Updates”

Q. You came on the show a few years ago to talk about “The Voyage of the Dawn Treader”, you were on a Half Pint episode with David last year, and we all did C. S. Lewis Reading Day. What have you been up to since then?

• Here is the list of shows the Narnia enthuseists have done with Pints:
  S3E39 – VODT – “Voyage of Dawn Treader Movie” (Part 1), S3E40 – VODT – “Voyage of Dawn Treader” Movie (Part 2), Half Pint with Daniel and Phil (“The Lamp-post Listener”), and C. S. Lewis Reading Day 2024.
• Daniel and Phil have finished the Chronicles of Narnia recently, and are looking towards the future of the podcast. It might be a transition to focusing on children’s literature more broadly. Next year, they are considering branching into George MacDonald’s fairytales, potentially “The Princess and the Goblin”.
• Phil mentioned his love of sci-fi novels, and referenced the 1960s novel “Dune”, and its sequel, “Dune: Messiah”.

02. “Overall Impressions”

Q. As you have also just finished the series, Phil, what was your overall impression of the Chronicles of Narnia? What was your favourite book, what what was your favourite theme you picked up on?

• Phil enjoyed “The Last Battle” for the sense of continuing wonder at the end, but, as Douglas Gresham once said, the book you are reading right now is your favourite.
• Both of them appreciated the scene where the children are excited to find Emeth in Heaven.

What is it, cousins?” said Peter.

“A Calormene, Sire,” said several Dogs at once.

“Lead on to him, then, said Peter. “Whether he meets us in peace or in war, he shall be welcome”…

The others followed where the Dogs led them and found a young Calormene sitting under a chestnut tree beside a clear stream of water. It was Emeth. He rose at once and bowed gravely.

C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle

“The Glorious ONe bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, Son, thou art welcome. But I said, Alas, Lord, I am no son of thine but the servant of Tash. He answered, Child, all the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me….For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath’s sake, it is by me that he ahs truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him.”

C. S. Lewis, Emeth, The Last Battle

• Daniel has consistently loved “The Voyage of the Dawn Treader”. However, even some of the ones he initially didn’t enjoy as much, like “Prince Caspian” and “The Magician’s Nephew”, contain certain themes that stuck with him, like corruption of religion.
• The more time the reader spends with Lewis’ work, the more it reveals. It made Daniel think of “The Silver Chair”, where the Witch played Pascal’s wager with the children…

They were followed immediately by the last person whom anyone had expected or wished to see: the Lady of the Green Kirtle, the Queen of the Underland…

“Narnia?” she said. “Narnia? I have often heard your Lordship utter that name in your ravings. Dear Prince, you are very sick. There is no land called Narnia.”…

…”Why, there it is!” cried the Prince…. “Of courese we’ve all seen the sun.”

…Then came the Witch’s voice…”What is this sun that you speak of?…Your sun is a dream…the sun is but a tale, a children’s story…There never was a sun.”

C. S. Lewis, The Silver Chair

• He shows that the spiritual world is directly connected to the physical world, and is able to introduce this concept to young children.

03. “Connecting Thread”

Q. What do you think is the thread that connects all of the books together? What is the theme that consistently represents itself?

• Aslan’s presence and sovereignty is the consistent force, though it is through his interaction – or non-interaction – that Lewis crafts this unifying thread. Daniel explained how Lewis fleshes out the concept of sovereignty as it manifests itself in the world, and how we are meant to respond to it.
• It is hard to pick up on things the first time through. They recommended reading for enjoyment the first time, then going back and looking for themes a second time through. Engaging with other media helps too. They described doing this with “To Kill a Mockingbird”, and going to see a play after.

04. “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe”

Q. Let’s start with “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe”. What was something that stuck out to you, or a beautiful moment or theme that you remember?

• Daniel loved the imagery of the story, and the intoxicating nature of the land the reader is introduced to in “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe”. Lewis introduces the world in a slow way, gradually increasing the amount of time the children spend in the newfound world.
• Matt pointed out that the person whose heart is most open to receiving Narnia was Lucy, a young child.
• Phil talked about the small moments, and how great ideas were introduced through them, such as with the Beavers.

“Aslan is a lion- the Lion, the great Lion.”

“Ooh” said Susan. “I’d thought he was a man. Is he-quite safe? I shall feel rather nervous about meeting a lion”…

“Safe?” said Mr. Beaver…”Who said anything about safe? ‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good. He’s the King, I tell you.”

C. S. Lewis, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe

05. “Prince Caspian”

Q. On to Prince Caspian. What stood out there?

• Daniel enjoyed that Lewis gave the synopsis for his own book; the restoration of true religion after its corruption. “Prince Caspian” also introduces a complexity to the mix. Phil liked how Lewis was willing to deviate from his original story, not simply continue a repeat plot.

06. “The Voyage of the Dawn Treader”

Q. What about the “Dawn Treader”?

• The “undragoning” of Eustace stood out to Phil, because it is painful in the process. He connected it to his experience preparing for fatherhood in the coming weeks, and having to learn how to manage his time and prioritise things better, rather than simply doing what he wants.

“The lion said – but I don’t know if it spoke – ‘You will have to let me undress you.’ I was afraid of his claws, I can tell you, but I was pretty nearly desperate now. So I just lay flat down on my back to let him do it.

“The first tear he made was so deep that I thought it had gone right into my heart. And when he began pulling the skin off, it hurt worse than anything I’ve ever felt. The only thing that made me able to bear it was just the pleasure of feeling the stuff peel off…

…And there was I as smooth and soft as a peeled switch and smaller than I had been. Then he caught hold of me – I didn’t like that much for I was very tender underneath now that I’d no skin on – and threw me into the water. It smarted like anything but only for a moment. After that it became perfectly delicious and as soon as I started swimming and splashing I found that all the pain had gone from my arm. And then I saw why. I’d turned into a boy again.”

C. S. Lewis, Eustace, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader

• The other interesting characteristic that Daniel pointed out was that the story has no main plot or antagonist. It is driven by a love of exploration. This is something the movie failed to take into account.
• Daniel took note of the book teaching the proper orders of love, with Reepicheep loving courage – a virtue – and Eustace loving being a know-it-all – a trait that makes him an annoyance to everyone around him.

07. “The Silver Chair”

Q. Moving on to the Silver Chair…

• Daniel loved Jill’s character for her initial cynicism and skepticism, not only of Narnia and Aslan, but also regarding herself. He attributed this to the corruption of her education, and connected it to the modern world of public schools.
• Meanwhile, Phil appreciated the Silver Chair itself, which appeared to him as a metaphor for addiction. He also noticed when a character said “in the name of Aslan”.

“I’m on Aslan’s side even if there isn’t any Aslan to lead it. I’m going to live like a Narnian as I can even if there isn’t any Narnia.”

C. S. Lewis, Puddleglum, The Silver Chair

• One moment Phil pointed out was when the name of Aslan broke through the spell…

For the last few moments Jill had been feeling that there was something she must remember at all costs. And now she did. But it was dreadfully hard to say it. She felt as if huge weights were laid on her lips. At last, with an effort that seemed to take all the good out of her, she said:

“There’s Aslan.”

C. S. Lewis, The Silver Chair

08. “The Horse and His Boy”

Q. Let’s go to “The Horse and His Boy”…

• Phil said it gave him joy to see the secret interactions between Shasta and his twin in “The Horse and His Boy”, along with the big reveal at the end. The different perspective of the High Kings and Queens of Narnia was interesting as well.
• Matt noted how the world tries to tell people that our identity is not found in our history, or our sonship or daughtership in God, but in other trivial things. The arc of identity throughout the story was powerful. He also liked the scene of Bree’s realisation that it was Aslan who was chasing them…

“Now, Bree,” he said, “you poor, proud, frightened Hourse, draw near. Nearer still, my son. Do not dare not to dare. Touch me. Smell me. Here are my paws, here is my tail, these are my whiskers. I am a true Beast.”

“Aslan,” said Bree in a shaken voice, “I’m afraid I must be rather a fool.”

C. S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy

• Daniel appreciated the change in scenery throughout the book, as the characters traveled to different lands. The character Lasaraleen stood out as well by having an interesting moral code; doing good did not matter as much as just not doing wrong. It was a bare minimum thought process.

09. “The Magician’s Nephew”

Q. Now for the touchy one: “The Magician’s Nephew”…

• Daniel believed that this feels like a book Lewis felt obligated to write, as opposed to letting the story come to him. But Lewis is also telling a revised version of his own childhood, particularly where Diggory’s mother is healed, where Lewis’ dies of cancer.
• Uncle Andrew stood out to Phil as a character that gets his just desserts, displaying that the rules apply to everyone, though we might not want them to.

“We can’t get out of it now. We shall always be wondering what else would have happened if we had struck the bell. I’m not going home to be driven mad by always thinking of that. No fear!”

C. S. Lewis, Diggory, The Magician’s Nephew

• Lewis might have written this in during a time that weapons of mass destruction were being developed…

10. “The Last Battle”

Q. Was there anything additional that you wanted to say about “The Last Battle”?

–

Wrap-Up

More Information

• LamppostListener.com
• The Lamp-post Listener YouTube
• hello@lamppostlistener.com
• The Lamp-post Listener Patreon

Concluding Thoughts

• Season Eight for the show begins in May, where Daniel and Phil will be discussing the eschatology of “The Last Battle”, and myth.

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