Timestamps
00:00:00 – Episode Header
00:00:06 – Entering “The Eagle & Child”…
00:00:10 – Welcome and Chit-Chat
00:10:45 – Quote-of-the-week
00:11:19 – Drink-of-the-week
00:12:17 – Patreon Toast
00:13:18 – Discussion: Favourite Letters
00:42:40 – Discussion: Ultimate Unscrewing Screwtape
00:48:03 – Discussion: Takeaway from the Toast
00:52:22 – Discussion: Topics for another Screwtape work
01:02:47 – Discussion: Angels & Demons Quiz
01:17:54 – Discussion: The rest of Season 4 & 5
01:21:52 – “Last Call” Bell and Closing Thoughts
YouTube Version
After Show Skype Session
No Skype Session today!
Show Notes
Introduction
Chit-Chat
- One of the things David loved this past season is the number of people who have been reading Screwtape in book clubs:
- Dr. Brenton Dickieson (Guest)
- Fr. Michael O’Loughlin (Guest)
- Gary (Patreon Supporter)
- PragerU
- …and Andrew, who led a Community Group at All Saints Church, Chevy Chase, and just finished a 2-part series called “To Hell with CSL” at Church of the Redeemer.
- David had just finished reading Reflections on the Psalms for the first time. Andrew pointed out that this is the theme of the CSL Retreat this fall at Camp Allen, Texas
- Matt is reading the two biographical books about Lewis from Dr. Hal Poe in anticipation of interviewing him.
- Andrew is reading a lot of Tolkien.
- David is also officially a home-owner, moving to Wisconsin in August and then having his son in September. In related news, a UK listener, Aidan and his wife are also expecting, so congrats!
Quote-of-the-week
The quote-of-the-week was chosen by David…
“[Hell’s] cause is never more in danger than when a human, no longer desiring, but still intending, to do [God’s] will, looks round upon a universe from which every trace of Him seems to have vanished, and asks why he has been forsaken, and still obeys”
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
Drink-of-the-week
- The drink-of-the-week reverted to everyone’s favourite…
- Matt: Macallan 18
- David: Lagavulin 16
- Andrew: Balvenie 14 Caribbean Cask
Patreon Toast
Andrew toasted listener Kay Mihelich:
As we finish up our retrospective on The Screwtape Letters, I can’t help but be reminded that Christ is the Alpha and the Omega, and in Christ all things are new every morning: steadfast love and mercies eternal. So Kay, as we finish up, we raise a glass to numerousies in your life and in the lives of all of listeners. Cheers!
Toast for Kay Mihelich
Discussion
Favourite Letters
Each of the co-hosts shared three of their favourite letters from Screwtape…
Matt’s Favourites
Matt’s first favourite letter was Letter #8 (“Love Rollercoaster”):
Many religious people lament that the first fervours of their conversion have died away. They think–sometimes rightly, but not, I believe always–that their sins account for this. They may even try by pitiful efforts of will to revive what now seem to have been the golden days. But were those fervours–the operative word is those–ever intended to last?
C.S. Lewis, Letters To Malcolm (Letter #8)
He commented how the quotation from Letters To Malcolm made this letter more meaningful:
Many religious people lament that the first fervours of their conversion have died away. They think–sometimes rightly, but not, I believe always–that their sins account for this. They may even try by pitiful efforts of will to revive what now seem to have been the golden days. But were those fervours–the operative word is those–ever intended to last?
C.S. Lewis, Letters To Malcolm (Letter #5)
Matt’s second letter was Letter #9 (“Danger Zone”):
“Do not let him suspect the law of undulation. Let him assume that the first ardours of his conversion might have been expected to last, and ought to have lasted, forever, and that his present dryness is an equally permanent condition”
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #9)
Matt’s third letter was Letter #31 (“Blaze of Glory”):
Yes. Of course. It always was like this. All horrors have followed the same course, getting worse and worse and forcing you into a kind of bottle-neck till, at the very moment when you thought you must be crushed, behold! you were out of the narrows and all was suddenly well. The extraction hurt more and more and then the tooth was out. The dream became a nightmare and then you woke. You die and die and then you are beyond death. How could I ever have doubted it?“
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #31)
All the delights of sense, or heart, or intellect, with which you could once have tempted him, even the delights of virtue itself, now seem to him in comparison but as the half nauseous attractions of a raddled harlot would seem to a man who hears that his true beloved whom he has loved all his life and whom he had believed to be dead is alive and even now at his door. He is caught up into that world where pain and pleasure take on transfinite values and all our arithmetic is dismayed.
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #31)
Andrew’s Favourites
Andrew‘s first favourite letter was Letter #6 (“Should I stay or should I go?”):
“Think of your man as a series of concentric circles, his will being the innermost, his intellect coming next, and finally his fantasy. You can hardly hope, at once, to exclude from all the circles everything that smells of the Enemy: but you must keep on shoving all the virtues outward till they are finally located in the circle of fantasy, and all the desirable qualities inward into the Will. It is only in so far as they reach the Will and are there embodied in habits that the virtues are really fatal to us.”
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #6)
Andrew’s second favourite letter was Letter #15 (“Don’t stop thinking about tomorrow”):
He therefore, I believe, wants them to attend chiefly to two things, to eternity itself, and to that point of time which they call the Present. For the Present is the point at which time touches eternity… He would therefore have them continually concerned either with eternity (which means being concerned with Him) or with the Present—either meditating on their eternal union with, or separation from, Himself, or else obeying the present voice of conscience, bearing the present cross, receiving the present grace, giving thanks for the present pleasure.
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #15)
Andrew’s third favourite was Letter #22 (“Isn’t she lovely?”):
Music and silence—how I detest them both! How thankful we should be that ever since Our Father entered Hell—though longer ago than humans, reckoning in light years, could express—no square inch of infernal space and no moment of infernal time has been surrendered to either of those abominable forces, but all has been occupied by Noise—Noise, the grand dynamism, the audible expression of all that is exultant, ruthless, and virile—Noise which alone defends us from silly qualms, despairing scruples and impossible desires. We will make the whole universe a noise in the end.
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #22)
Matt mentioned a blog post he wrote about hearing a rendition of the Ave Maria.
David’s Favourites
David’s first favourite was Letter #1 (“State of Confusion”):
The trouble about argument is that it moves the whole struggle onto the Enemy’s own ground. He can argue too…
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #1)
Your business is to fix his attention on the stream. Teach him to call it “real life” and don’t let him ask what he means by “real”…
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #1)
Above all, do not attempt to use science (I mean, the real sciences) as a defence against Christianity. They will positively encourage him to think about realities he can’t touch and see.
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #1)
David’s second favourite was Letter #12 (“Slow Fade”):
It does not matter how small the sins are provided that their cumulative effect is to edge the man away from the Light and out into the Nothing. Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick. Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one—the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #12)
David’s final favourite was Letter #21 (“I want it now”):
Men are not angered by mere misfortune but by misfortune conceived as injury. And the sense of injury depends on the feeling that a legitimate claim has been denied. The more claims on life, therefore, that your patient can be induced to make, the more often he will feel injured and, as a result, ill-tempered.
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters (Letter #21)
David noted that Sister Natalia and Sister Petra will be
Ultimate Unscrewing Screwtape Advice
Over the course of this season, we’ve been doing Screwtape Unscrewed, where we’ve offered different untwisted advice. In this episode each co-host offered a single DO and a single DON’T for the book as a whole…
Matt’s Advice
Do: Focus on habits more than feelings; strive for virtue in the face of difficulty; our Heavenly Father is always with us.
Do not: Despair along the journey.
Andrew’s Advice
Do: Love God and others.
Do not: be blind to Screwtape’s tactics.
David’s Advice
Do: enjoy the good gifts God has given (remember, Screwtape says He’s a hedonist at heart), but…
Do not: make this world your home.
A few dons come to my lectures but far fewer undergrads. I’ve never had such small audiences before. Must be frightfully good for me.
Letter from C.S. Lewis to John Lawlor (4th October 1956)
There is no denying—and I don’t know why I should deny to you—that our domestic life is both more physically comfortable and more psychologically harmonious for her absence. The expence is of course v. severe and I have worries about that. But it wd. be v. dangerous to have no worries—or rather no occasions of worry. I have been feeling that v. much lately: that cheerful insecurity is what Our Lord asks of us. Thus one comes, late & surprised, to the simplest & earliest Christian lessons!
Letter from C.S. Lewis to John Lawlor (30th December 1950)
Takeaway from the Toast
The co-hosts then discussed their main takeaways from Screwtape’s toast. Matt and David didn’t think they were as good as the letters.
Matt
Matt’s main takeaway was about the importance of Individuality; we are called to a unique and authentic greatness; when we blend together with society, we aren’t great sinners or great saints. He also quoted the following passage:
Andrew
Andrew commented on the timely nature of Lewis’ toast, particularly the way he sets us against each other in the name of “democracy”:
“But it has a far deeper value as an end in itself, as a state of mind, which necessarily excluding humility, charity, contentment, and all the pleasures of gratitude or admiration, turns a human being away from almost every road which might finally lead him to Heaven.”
C.S. Lewis, Screwtape Proposes A Toast
David
David commented on how Satan wants us to be half-asleep, awake enough to consciously sin, but not awake enough to really consciously think about it too much. He also spoke about how Mediocrity isn’t a bad thing for Hell and what Satan really wants is for us to not have real personalities, something which we will have if we turn to Christ.
Topics for another Screwtape Work
Next, the co-hosts talked about which topics they would like to see addressed in Screwtapian fashion…
Matt
Matt’s suggestions included letters on:
- Ego
- The desire for validation and love
- The Power of Stress
- The Role of Grace
Andrew
Andrew said he’d like to see a deep Screwtape study on the subject of hatred.
David
David had many suggestions for letters:
- More on the Sunday services
- Baptism
- Godparents
- Wedding
- Funeral
- Someone in a souring ministry
- More interpersonal stuff, both within marriage and someone attempting brotherly correction
- Vocation Discernment
- At work
- Christian unity
- The Patient goes to university
Angels & Demons Quiz
David then surprised Matt and Andrew with a pop quiz!
What’s in a name?
Q1. What does the word “Angel” actually mean? (1 point)
A. It comes from the Greek “Angelos”, meaning messenger
Q2. What does the word “Devil” actually mean? (1 point)
A. It comes from the Greek “diabolos”, meaning accuser or slanderer
Dude, do you even listen to us?
Q1. At the start of this season, I interviewed a podcaster who is also the author of the companion book to The Screwtape Letters, which is called “C.S. Lewis goes to Hell”. Who was that author? (1 point)
A. William O’Flaherty
Q2. The next “After Hours” interview following the interview with William was with the author of The Annotated Screwtape Letters, and who also worked for Focus On The Family adaptation with Andy Serkis. Who was this man? (1 point)
A. Paul McCusker
Angels & Demons in Scripture
Q1. How many choirs of angels are there? Taking it in turns, please try to name them… (10 points)
There are nine choirs of angels.
First Sphere
- Seraphim
- Cherubim
- Thrones
Second Sphere
- Dominions
- Virtues
- Powers
Third Sphere
- Principalities
- ArchAngels
- Angels
Q2. Satan is often called “Lucifer”, but what does this name mean, and in what book of the Bible is this name used? (2 points)
A. Light-bearer. Originally used to refer to the King of Babylon in Isaiah.
Q3. In the Annunciation, Mary is told by an angel that she will give birth to Jesus. What was the name of that angel, and in which Gospel is that recorded? (2 points)
A. The Gospel of Luke. Gabriel.
Q4. Mary was greeted by an angel, but her husband Joseph was visited by angels in dreams. In what Gospel are these recorded? How many angelic dreams does St. Joseph receive? (2 points)
A. The Gospel of Matthew. Four.
Q5. How many archangels are named in the Bible (Catholic and Protestant canons)? Taking it in turns please name them. (4 points)
A. Three (Although Tobit suggests that there are seven)
A. Michael (Jude 1:9), Raphael (Tobit 12:15), Gabriel (Luke 1:19)
Tradition often speaks of others: Uriel, Saraqael, Raguel, and Remiel.
Devilish Literature
Q1. Name the American author of the bestselling mystery-thriller novel “Angels & Demons” which was published in the year 2000. (1 point)
A. Dan Brown
Q2. What is the name of the epic poem in blank verse, featuring the devil, written by the 17th-century English poet John Milton? (1 point)
A. Paradise Lost
Q3. In the German legend, what is the name of the demon to whom Faust sells his soul? (1)
A. Mephistopheles
Q4. Following on from the previous question, T.S. Elliot’s book, Old Possum’s Book of Practical Cats was adapted into the musical Cats and released recently as a movie. What was the name of the feline named after the demon from Faust? (1 point)
The Magical Mr. Mestophelies
Angels & Demons in Lewis
Q1. In The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, we are told that the White Witch is partially descended from giants and what mythical demonic race? (1 point)
A. The Jinn
Q2. In the unpublished preface of The Screwtape Letters, Lewis says that these letters were translated from another language. What was that language? (1 point)
A. Old Solar
Q3. How many demons are named in The Screwtape Letters? Identify as many as you can. (6 points)
A. Five. Eight (David got this wrong!)
- Screwtape
- Wormwood (Screwtape’s nephew)
- Toadpipe (Screwtape’s Secretary)
- Slubgob (director of the training college)
- Glubose (Devil in charge of the Patient’s mother)
- Slumtrimpet (Devil in charge of the patient’s girlfriend)
- Triptweeze (Devil associated with the worldly middle-aged couple the Patient meets)
- Scabtree (Devil who thinks wartime is a great time for temptation)
Q4. How many letters does Screwtape write to his nephew? (1 point)
A. Thirty-one.
The rest of Season 4…
- David explained that on Thursday he’ll be interviewing Dr. Michael Ward (of Planet Narnia fame) about his latest book on The Abolition of Man.
- After that, we’ll begin Narnia Month!
- The three of us are going to be discussing The Silver Chair with an exciting guest co-host…
- After that, we’re going to finish the month with a number of Narnia-related interviews…
- Dr. David Downing
- Dr. Devin Brown
- Dr. Brian Williams
- Dr. Ray Baker
- Katherine Langrish
- …and we’re wrapping up with an interview Andrew gave on another podcast.
- Then, after Narnia Month, we’ll be interviewing a bunch more guests, Dr. Diana Glyer about her new book and Dr. Marcellino D’Ambrosio about a book we’ve spoken about a lot, When the Church Was Young.
- We’ve also got some other special episodes. Andrew is going to be doing an episode about buying vintage Lewis books. He’ll hopefully be talking with the folks over at The Fellowship of Performing Arts. We’ll also hopefully be doing some music-related episodes…and much, much more!
- We’ll be wrapping up Season 4 in September, taking a little break for a few weeks while David gets used to being a Dad and then we’ll be back with Season 5!
Season 5
- Our release schedule in Season 5 will calm down a bit…
- We’ll still have an episode every Tuesday, working through The Four Loves
- And we’ll have, at most, a couple of “After Hours” interviews each month.
- …but we’ve also got some exciting plans for other projects and other events which we’ll unveil at the beginning of Season 5!
