Timestamps
00:07 – Entering “The Eagle & Child”…
00:11 – Welcome
00:22 – Dr. Michael Ward
02:04 – Chit-Chat: Since his last appearance…
02:53 – Chit-Chat: Most Reluctant Convert
04:06 – Chit-Chat: All Creatures Great and Small
05:38 – Quote-of-the-week
06:00 – Drink-of-the-week
07:05 – Discussion: Initial thoughts
08:07 – Discussion: Background
11:28 – Discussion: Audience
13:23 – Discussion: The Abolition of Man
16:48 – Discussion: A.J. Ayer and I.A. Richards
19:41 – Discussion: Logical Positivism and Subjectivism
21:19 – Discussion: Difficulties with Abolition
25:56 – Discussion: Why essential for Lewis Fans?
31:23 – Discussion: Abolition of Narnia
34:37 – Discussion: Dedication
38:06 – Discussion: Photo Gallery
42:14 – Discussion: How to use it
43:06 – Discussion: After Virtue
47:40 – “Last Call” Bell and Closing Thoughts
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After Show Skype Session
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Show Notes
Introduction
Biographical Information
Dr. Michael Ward is an English C.S. Lewis scholar, best known for his books Planet Narnia and The Narnia Code, in which he argues that The Chronicles of Narnia are structured to embody and express the imagery of the seven heavens of the medieval cosmos.
He has studied at a number of institutions: Regent’s Park College, Oxford; Peterhouse, Cambridge; and the University of St Andrews. He is currently Senior Research Fellow at Blackfriars Hall, University of Oxford, and Professor of Apologetics at Houston Baptist University.
He’s been an extra in a number of films, including Shadowlands, Hamlet, and The World Is Not Enough. He’s most recently taken the role of C.S. Lewis’s vicar in The Most Reluctant Convert, a film about Lewis’s conversion first to theism and then to Christianity.
However, the reason he’s here today is to talk about his newly-released book, After Humanity: A Guide to C.S. Lewis’s The Abolition of Man.
Biographical information for Dr. Michael Ward
Chit-Chat
- Q. It’s been about four or five months since you were last on the show – what have you been up to in the meantime?
- Q. Do you have any new information the release of The Most Reluctant Convert movie?
- David and Michael spoke about the TV show, All Creatures Great and Small, both the original series and the reboot. Dr. Ward mentioned that not only is one of the characters in the reboot playing C.S. Lewis, but one of the characters in the original was taught by C.S. Lewis and the actor who played King Caspian in The Voyage of The Dawn Treader is playing a character in the reboot!
Quote-of-the-week
We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst.”
The Abolition of Man
Drink-of-the-week
- For the drink of the week, David was drinking a cup of Earl Grey Tea and Fr. Ward was drinking water, but heading to the pub afterwards for a glass of Prosecco and a pint of cider!
Discussion
Background
- Q. This book is bit of a departure for you to venture into Lewis’s philosophical side. What motivated you to turn to this subject and produce this new kind of book?
Audience
- Q. Who is your intended audience for this book?
The Abolition of Man
- Q. What is The Abolition of Man, what’s its argument and why did Lewis write it?
- Q. What is it about this book which makes some people stumble?
- Q. Why did Walter Hooper say that The Abolition of Man was a book indispensable as an introduction to all of Lewis’ work?
- Q. Do we see the ideas of The Abolition of Man in The Magician’s Nephew?
…what you see and hear depends a good deal on where you are standing: it also depends on what sort of person you are.
C.S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew
After Humanity
- To whom did you dedicate your book, and why?
- Gabriel’s Oboe was composed by Ennio Morricone (here’s a video of him conducting the piece).
- Through the work of Sarah Brightman, this song had lyrics added and renamed “Nella Fantasia”:
In my imagination I see a fair world,
Everyone lives in peace and in honesty there.
I dream of souls that are always free,
Like the clouds that fly,
Full of humanity in the depths of the soul.In my imagination I see a bright world,
Even the night is less dark there.
I dream of souls that are always free,
Like clouds that fly.In my imagination there exists a warm wind,
Nella Fantasia
That breathes on the cities, like a friend.
I dream of souls that are always free,
Like clouds that fly,
Full of humanity in the depths of the soul.
- Q. Can you talk about the photo gallery in the center of the book?
‘What is the use of a book without pictures…?
Alice in Wonderland
- Q. How should people use your book and when should they read its different sections?
Dr. Ward suggested reading the first few chapters of Mere Christianity first, and then read “The Points of Subjectivism”:
- Q. What is the impact of The Abolition of Man and in what way has Lewis been proved right?
It is easy.. to understand why protest becomes a distinctive moral feature of the modern age and why indignation is a predominant modern emotion… The self-assertive shrillness of protest arises because the facts of incommensurability ensure that protestors can never win an argument; the indignant self-righteousness of protest arises because the facts of incommensurability ensure equally that the protestors can never lose an argument either. Hence the utterance of protest is characteristically addressed to those who already share the protestors’ premises. The effects of incommensurability ensure that protestors rarely have anyone else to talk to but themselves. This is not to say that protest cannot be effective; it is to say that it cannot be rationally effective and that its dominant modes of expression give evidence of a certain perhaps unconscious awareness of this
Alasdair MacIntyre, After Virtue
