Dr. Timothy Larsen joins the show to talk about his new book, “George MacDonald and the Age of Miracles” to discuss Incarnation, Doubt, and Re-enchantment.
S7E36: “MacDonald Month: In the Age of Miracles” (Download)
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Show Notes
Introduction
Quote-of-the-week
For MacDonald the fairy tale was the way into reality; the imagination the way into the truth; the hurt of the rosefire filled with the fragrance of flowers the connection with divine love, the connection with light breaking into the world through the gospel.
Dr. Timothy Larsen, George MacDonald in the Age of Miracles
Biographical Information
Dr. Larsen is McManis Professor of Christian Thought at Wheaton College. He is a fellow of the Royal Historical Society, and he has been a visiting fellow at Trinity College, Cambridge, and All Souls College, Oxford. He is the author of a number of books, including: “John Stuart Mill: A Secular Life”, “The Slain God: Anthropologists and the Christian Faith”, “A People of One Book: The Bible and the Victorians”, “Crisis of Doubt: Honest Faith in Nineteenth-Century England”, as well as the book which we’ll be discussing today, “George MacDonald in the Age of Miracles: Incarnation, Doubt, and Reenchantment”.
Chit-Chat
- Dr. Larsen gave a lecture series that has been posted on the Wade Center YouTube channel. The first is “George MacDonald in the Age of the Incarnation”, the second, “George MacDonald and the Crisis of Doubt”, and the third, “George MacDonald and the Reenchantment of the World”.
- This book is the first modern book about George MacDonald to grace David’s bookshelf.
Toast
- David had a very strong mug of coffee.
- Dr. Larsen had a glass of water.
Discussion
01. “Background”
Q. So, you’re a professor at Wheaton College, home of the Wade Center. Would you mind telling us a bit more about your background and career?
- Dr. Larsen went to Wheaton College at the same time that Mark Noll, the author of “C. S. Lewis in America”, was there. David interviewed him this season discussing this very book.
02. “Hansen Lectures”
Q. Your book came out of the Hansen Lectureship. What are the Hansen Lectures?
- Every year, a Wheaton College Center member is selected to give three lectures related to the Wade Center collections, which another member will respond to.
- Dr. Larsen wrote his lectures from the point of view of a church historian, rather than a literary scholar.
What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing. It also depends on what sort of person you are.
C. S. Lewis, The Magician’s Nephew
03. “The Age of the Incarnation”
Q. In “Miracles”, C. S. Lewis says that “The central miracle asserted by Christians is the Incarnation”, and the first part of your book is titled “George MacDonald in the Age of the Incarnation”. Why was the Incarnation and the celebration of Christmas so important to MacDonald?
- David mentioned Lewis’ book “Miracles” in the question.
- The second half of the 19th century in Britain was known as the age of the Incarnation, which is where Dr. Larsen derives the title from.
- In the late 1800s, Bishop Gore of the Church of England edited a book called “Lux Mundi: A Series of Studies in the Religion of the Incarnation”, which defined Christianity by this event, as opposed to the Atonement.
- Many of the Christmas traditions that are celebrated today come from the Victorians, such as people like Charles Dickens, who famously authored “A Christmas Carol”.
- MacDonald and his family enthusiastically celebrated Christmas, writing a Christmas poem every year, and tying the holiday into many of his stories.
- David mentioned how Lewis – unsurprisingly – held a similar view regarding the Incarnation as the central event in Christian history, a view that he wrote about in an introduction that he wrote for a book entitled “On the Incarnation”.
04. “More Pecans”
Q. The response to this section was given by Dr. James Beitler. What was his his chief takeaway, other than “more pecans”?
- One criticism that Dr. Beitler had was that Dr. Larsen did not focus enough on adult fantasy novels. He makes particular note of “Phantastes”, and how the doctrine of the Incarnation manifested itself in this work.
I saw the bright shadow coming out of the book into the real world and resting there, transforming all common things and yet itself unchanged. Or, more accurately, I saw the common things drawn into the bright shadow.
C. S. Lewis, Surprised by Joy
05. “Crisis of Doubt”
Q. Your next lecture and the next part of the book is called “George MacDonald and the Crisis of Doubt”. What was MacDonald’s response to the Victorian period’s “Age of Doubt” and the doubters he himself knew?
- In the introduction, David also grabbed a quote from “Mere Christianity”…
When a young man who has been going to church in a routine way honestly realises that he does not believe in Christianity and stops going—provided he does it for honesty’s sake and not just to annoy his parents—the spirit of Christ is probably nearer to him then than it ever was before.
C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
- People in the church at this time period acted very severely to any kind of doubt, which unintentionally exacerbated that doubt. Dr. Larsen explored this more in “Crisis of Doubt”. But to MacDonald, doubt was a sign of emotional engagement with the subject in question, which could lead to a maturation of faith.
06. “Reasons for Protest”
Q. MacDonald was friends with many people that others would write off due to their skepticism. Could you speak about this in greater depth?
- One of MacDonald’s quesitoning friends was American writer Mark Twain. He criticised many aspects of religion where he believe that people became too self-righteous. However, he did respect certain figures like Joan of Arc, who Twain wrote about her in his book “Joan of Arc”.
07. “Ecumenical Faith and Poetry”
Q. Did you have any thoughts about the response to this section by Dr. Richard Gibson on MacDonald’s ecumenical faith and poetry?
Perplext in faith, but pure in deeds,
At last he beat his music out.
There lives more faith in honest doubt,
Believe me, than in half the creeds.
A. H. H. Tennyson
- Dr. Larsen suggests that there is a yearning inside many non-believers for a higher reality. He named William Wordsworth, Arthur Clough, Matthew Arnold, Richard Gibson, and Percy Shelley. Even Thomas Huxley, coiner of the term “agnostic”, wants the church to remain.
08. “The Reenchantment of the World”
Q. You end your lecture series and the book with “George MacDonald and the Reenchantment of the World”. Lewis addresses the process of reenchantment in his essay “Talking about Bicycles”. In this section of the book you question some of the common perspectives on George’s career as a clergyman. Would you mind speaking to that?
- After doing careful research, Dr. Larsen has come to believe that George MacDonald left his pastorate because he was a bad pastor, not because his congregation was too narrow-minded. He clashed often with other members of the church, and tried to tweak the practices of others rather than guide them.
09. “Providence”
Q. You spent some time in this section talking about divine providence and holiness. What was MacDonald’s perspective on these concepts?
- Although MacDonald rejected parts of his Calvanist faith, he held a very strong view of providence, and believed that everything, no matter how bad it appears, was made for a person’s ultimate good.
- David referenced an interview from earlier in the season, S7E22 – AH – “Jack’s Bookshelf: Boethius”, After Hours with Dr. Michael Dauphinais. Boethius had an idea about the Wheel of Fortune, which found its way into Lewis’ Narnia series.
- In the “Latin Letters of C. S. Lewis”, he states that everyone will be used by God. David also made a reference to “The Problem of Pain”…
For you will certainly carry out God’s purpose, however you act, but it makes a difference to you whether you serve like Judas or like John.
C. S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain
- Dr. Larsen talked about “A Grief Observed”, and Lewis’ own struggles which did not ultimately compromise his faith.
10. “Grace or Works?”
Q. What is the final response that we see from Dr. Jill Baumgaertner?
- While MacDonald believed that our efforts and choices play a role in our sanctification, Dr. Baumgaertner held that it was God working grace, not our efforts.
- The ultimate goal of a Christian is to be a saint in Heaven…
I find a good many people have been bothered by what I said in the previous chapter about Our Lord’s words, ‘Be ye perfect’…. I think He meant ‘The only help I will give is help to become perfect. You may want something less: but I will give you nothing less.’
C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
- The rose-fire which adorns the cover of George MacDonald In the Age of Miracles” shows up in “The Princess and Curdie” book, where a Curdie sticks his hands into the flames willingly to purify himself.
So might I imagine a thousand steps up from the darkness, each a little less dark, a little nearer the light—but, ah, the weary way! He cannot come out until he will have paid the uttermost farthing!
George MacDonald, Unspoken Sermons
- David mentioned that in “The Great Divorce”, Lewis talked about letting go of all sin before entering God’s kingdom.
If we insist on keeping Hell (or even earth) we shall not see Heaven: if we accept Heaven we shall not be able to retain even the smallest and most intimate souvenirs of Hell.
C. S. Lewis, The Great Divorce
- We are called to be participants, as St. Paul points out in his letter to the Corinthians…
Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and of spirit, making holiness perfect in the fear of God.
2 Corinthians 7:1
- However, as Philippians 2 says, it is God at work within you when you choose to surrender. C. S. Lewis reflected on this in “Mere Christianity”…
Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:12-13
Regarding the debate about faith and works: It’s like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most important.
C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
11. “Final Thoughts”
Q. Any final thoughts about your book, or final hopes for its readers? Do you have any future projects that you’d like to mention?
- Dr. Larsen has an annotated version of “Diary of an Old Soul” recently released by InterVarsity Press. He will also be releasing “Twelve Classic Christmas Stories” in a few months, which contains George MacDonald’s “The Gifts of the Child Christ”. It also has G. K. Chesterton’s “The Shop of Ghosts”.
Wrap-Up
Concluding Thoughts
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